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Paper Tune Root-Cause Diagnostic

A tear tells you the arrow left the bow with some yaw. It doesn’t tell you why. Answer what actually happens when you test it and this ranks the real suspects — nock pinch, center shot, cam lean, spine — before you spend an afternoon moving a rest that was never the problem.

Burak, founder of ArcheryEra
Built By A Mechanical Engineer

ArcheryEra's calculators are built and maintained by a mechanical engineer with 8+ years of archery-domain experience. Models, assumptions and limitations are shown, not hidden.

Want to see the exact scoring weights behind this ranking? Read our Methodology & Assumptions →

Simulation Lab

Test it, don’t just read the tear

Your tear, what happened after a few small moves, and three checks that cost nothing, turned into a ranked list of what to fix, in order. Log a whole session round by round and it also tracks how fast your own bow is responding. Compound or finger-shot bows.

Pre-Sets

Six real diagnostic patterns, loaded as a whole answer set at once. Pick the one closest to your situation, then correct anything that doesn’t match — everything stays editable.

Pick one to load a whole answer set, then change anything from there.

Copies a link that reopens the tool with these exact answers.

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What the paper said

Shoot through paper from about 4–8 ft with a field point (Easton starts at 4–6 ft, most guides use 6–8 ft). Use three arrows and trust the tear that repeats.

What happened after a few small rest / nocking-point moves

Move 1/32 in at a time and shoot paper again from the same distance after every move. This single answer separates the rest-fixable causes from everything else.

Tuning session log optional

Log the starting tear, then one change per round and the tear it left. From two rounds on, the log fills in the tear and the rest-move answer above, and the results side shows how fast your own bow is responding. It stays in this browser until you clear it.

One step = the increment you actually use: 1/32 in for the rest, 1/16 in for the nocking point.

Three free checks — no gear, no rest moves

Spin the shaft with the head on, dust the vanes and rest with foot powder, and shoot a few with a dead-relaxed hand. All three take a few minutes and rule out what a rest can never fix.

Your setup

Run this arrow through the Dynamic Spine & Shaft Flex Calculator and bring its verdict here. A spine that checks out pushes the ranking toward the causes you can adjust.

Primary suspect — ranked from your answers
Confidence — of a possible 100
Free checks run 0 / 3 spin · powder · grip

Ranked suspects, from your answers

Fix in this order

    Where you are in the tuning order

      Guide

      Diagnosing a Paper Tune Tear: A Step-by-Step Workflow

      Most paper-tuning advice stops at "chase the tear with the rest." That works when the rest is actually the problem. When it isn't, you can spend an entire range session moving something that was never going to fix it. Here's the order that actually separates the causes.

      Step 1: Rule Out What a Rest Position Can Never Fix

      Before moving anything, run three checks that cost nothing. Spin the arrow — head on — on a spinner or across two field points seated in a scrap of 2×4, and watch the tip against a fixed mark; a tip that traces a circle is a bent shaft or a crooked insert, and shooters comparing notes on ArcheryTalk routinely find one or two arrows in a dozen doing this. Dust the vanes and rest with foot powder or lipstick and shoot one arrow — a clean wipe across a launcher arm or cable makes a tear no rest position will close. Shoot a few arrows with a completely relaxed hand and a wrist sling — if the tear changes, grip torque was steering the bow, not a tuning error.

      Step 2: Read the Plane, Not Just the Direction

      A horizontal tear (tail left or right) and a vertical tear (nock high or low) point at different short lists of causes. Horizontal tears cluster around center shot, cam lean on a compound, and grip torque. Vertical tears cluster around nocking point height and nock pinch — the string groove gripping the nock too hard and kicking the tail off-line at release. Both lists overlap with the mechanical checks in Step 1, which is exactly why those come first.

      Step 3: Test the Rest, Don’t Just Read the Tear

      Move the rest (1/32 in at a time) or the nocking point (1/16 in at a time) in small steps and shoot paper again from the same distance after each move, three arrows per check. Group-based checks at 20–40 yards come later, in the bare-shaft and broadhead stages. What happens next is the single most useful piece of information in this whole process: a tear that closes cleanly within a few small moves is very likely center shot or nocking point height. A tear that barely shrinks, or doesn’t move at all after several correctly-directed moves, is pointing somewhere the rest can’t reach.

      How Do I Know If It's Cam Lean and Not Center Shot?

      Both produce a horizontal tear, which is why this is one of the most argued-about calls in tuning threads — the Rokslide community has picked this apart at length. The tell is the same rest-travel test from Step 3: center shot responds within normal rest adjustment, while cam lean keeps producing a tear even after the rest has run out of reasonable travel, because the string itself is tracking off to one side at the cam. That calls for a draw board and a look at cam timing, not another 1/32 in of rest movement, and Bow International's technical breakdown of cam lean covers what a shop checks for.

      How Is Paper Tuning Different on a Recurve, Longbow or Barebow?

      With a release, the string comes straight off the nock and a horizontal tear mostly points at the rest. With fingers, the string rolls off the fingertips and the shaft has to flex around the riser, so a horizontal tear is read as the arrow’s spine reaction first. Easton’s tuning guide is explicit about it: for a right-handed finger shooter, a nock-right tear is a stiff arrow and a nock-left tear is a weak one. That’s why the finger-shot option splits the tear’s weight between plunger/center shot and spine, and hands you the Easton levers in order.

      The levers are different too. Before a new shaft, a finger shooter has plunger spring tension, point weight, brace height and draw weight. Easton notes that raising brace height makes an arrow shoot weaker and lowering it makes it shoot stiffer. The nocking point also starts higher: about 1/2 in above square for fingers against about 1/4 in for a release, per the same guide.

      Why Log a Tuning Session Instead of Reading One Tear?

      One tear is one data point. A session is a trend, and the trend is what tells you whether you’re turning the right knob. The log takes the starting tear plus one change per round and does three things with it. It sets the rest-move answer for you (closed, shrank, didn’t change, got worse). It flags the patterns worth stopping on: a tear that flips sides (you went past center), grows (reverse direction), or hasn’t shrunk after three moves on the right plane (stop, it’s something that adjustment can’t reach). And once two rounds used the same adjustment and the tear is shrinking, it draws a straight line through your numbers to estimate how many more steps should close it.

      That estimate is the one thing on this page with no published formula behind it. I don’t know of any source that gives a fixed ratio between rest travel and tear size, because it depends on the bow, the arrow and the distance to the paper. So the tool only projects from your own measured response and says so every time.

      What Comes After a Clean Paper Tear?

      Paper is stage two of four. The order the results panel walks through follows Easton’s tuning sequence: free mechanical checks, paper at 4–6 ft and then 6 ft farther back, a bare-shaft planing test at 15–20 yards (three fletched, then two bare shafts at the same aim), and finally broadheads against field points. Bare shafts hitting high or low move the nocking point toward them. Broadheads grouping high or low move the nocking point the same way, and a left/right split goes to the rest or plunger. The Broadhead Flight & Tuning Stability Checker covers that last stage. How clean is clean enough? A rule of thumb you’ll hear from experienced tuners comparing notes on paper distance: once the point hole sits inside the vane cuts, stop chasing paper and move on to bare shafts.

      Common Pitfalls & Community Solutions

      • Chasing the rest when the nock is the problem. A nock seated too tight on the string produces a vertical tear that looks exactly like a nocking-point error. Archers in a long ArcheryTalk thread on a stubborn nock-low tear eventually traced it to nock fit, not nocking point, after multiple rounds of rest adjustment did nothing.
      • Reading a horizontal tear as spine without testing it first. Spine is a real possibility, but it's the last suspect to check, not the first — test the mechanical causes and the rest-move result before buying a different shaft.
      • Changing two things between paper checks. Move one variable, shoot paper, read it, then decide the next move. Adjusting the rest and the nocking point in the same session makes it impossible to know which change did what.
      • Giving up after one rest move. Threads on nock-high tears show the pattern repeatedly: a single move rarely tells the whole story, but two or three in the same direction usually do.

      Frequently Asked Questions

      What actually causes a paper tear, beyond "my bow isn't tuned"?

      A tear is just the arrow leaving the bow with some yaw — the nock end and the point end aren't travelling in exactly the same line. What puts that yaw there varies a lot: the nock pinching or slapping off the string at release, the rest sitting off the arrow's true center line, the nocking point set too high or low, a cam leaning or coming out of time on a compound, grip torque steering the riser at the shot, something physically clipping the vane or a cable on the way out, a bent shaft or an insert seated crooked, or the shaft being outside the bow's real spine window. The tear itself doesn't say which — it only says a yaw exists. That's the whole reason this tool exists instead of just reading a chart.

      Why isn't tear direction alone enough to diagnose the cause?

      Direction tells you the plane the yaw is in — horizontal or vertical — and horizontal tears share a short list of usual suspects (center shot, cam lean, grip torque) while vertical tears share a different one (nocking point height, nock pinch). But more than one of those can produce the same-looking tear, and reading direction alone can't tell a center-shot problem from cam lean, or a nocking-point problem from nock pinch. What separates them is what happens when you actually test each one — which is why this tool asks about your rest-move result and three free mechanical checks, not just the tear.

      What is nock pinch, and how do I know if it's happening?

      Nock pinch is the string groove gripping the nock too hard, so instead of releasing cleanly it kicks the tail sideways or vertically for a fraction of a second after the string separates — after the arrow is already committed to a flight line the fletching then has to fight. It shows up mostly as a vertical tear (nock high or low) that won't fully close no matter how much you move the nocking point, because the nocking point was never the actual problem. Check it by feel: the nock should seat on the string with a light, even click, not a hard squeeze and not a loose wobble. A too-tight nock is a common, quick-to-fix cause that a lot of paper-tuning advice skips straight past on the way to the rest.

      Does cam lean really cause a paper tear on a compound bow?

      Yes, and it's one of the more argued-about causes in tuning threads precisely because it looks identical to a center-shot problem on paper — both put a horizontal tear in the sheet. The giveaway is what happens when you try to fix it with the rest: a center-shot issue closes up within normal rest travel, while cam lean keeps producing a tear (or a tear that won't fully close) even after the rest has run out of reasonable adjustment, because the string itself is tracking off to one side at the cam. That's a draw-board and cam-timing fix, not a rest-position fix, which is exactly why this tool treats "the tear didn't change after several small rest moves" as a real signal rather than just telling you to keep moving the rest further.

      How do I run the free mechanical checks before touching the rest?

      Three checks, none of which cost anything: spin the arrow on a spinner or across two field points seated in a scrap of 2×4 and watch the tip against a fixed mark — a tip that traces a circle is a bent shaft or a crooked insert, not a tuning problem. Dust the vanes and rest with foot powder or lipstick and shoot one arrow — a clean wipe across a launcher arm or cable makes a tear no rest position will ever close. Shoot a few arrows with a completely relaxed hand and a wrist sling — if the tear changes or shrinks, the bow was never the actual problem. All three take a few minutes and rule out things a rest adjustment structurally cannot fix, so they're weighted heavily in the ranking below.

      Why does this tool ask what happened after I moved the rest, not just the tear itself?

      Because the tear alone is one data point and the rest-move result is a second, independent one — and two data points rule out far more than one. A tear that closes cleanly after a couple of small rest moves is very likely a center-shot or nocking-point issue, plain and simple. A tear that barely shrinks, or doesn't move at all after several moves, points somewhere the rest can't reach — spine, cam lean, or a mechanical fault. Treating those as the same situation is how people end up chasing a rest position for a problem the rest was never going to fix.

      Weak or stiff spine: why does the tool only say it for finger-shot bows?

      For a finger release there's a published reading: Easton's tuning chart treats a nock-right tear as stiff and a nock-left tear as weak for a right-handed archer, so the recurve/longbow option shows it, mirrored for left-handed shooters. For a compound shot with a release, experienced tuners argue that a horizontal tear is a center-shot signature first and says little reliable about spine, and that disagreement shows up in the same tuning threads year after year. What isn't in dispute is the behavior: if a tear won't close after several correctly-directed small rest moves and every mechanical check comes back clean, spine is a genuine suspect worth checking against a manufacturer chart with your real draw weight, draw length, point weight and cut length.

      What should I do once I have a primary suspect?

      Fix in the order the tool ranks them, one change at a time, and shoot paper again after each one before touching anything else — changing two variables at once is how a correct fix gets missed or credited to the wrong cause. If spine comes back as a suspect, run your real numbers through the Dynamic Spine & Shaft Flex Calculator before buying shafts. Once the tear is clean, the Broadhead Flight & Tuning Stability Checker shows what any remaining yaw would have cost you downrange with a fixed-blade head on.

      How is paper tuning different on a recurve, longbow or barebow?

      With fingers, the string rolls off the fingertips and the shaft flexes around the riser, so a horizontal tear is read as a spine reaction first. Easton's tuning guide says that for a right-handed finger shooter a nock-right tear is a stiff arrow and a nock-left tear is a weak one (mirror it if you shoot left-handed). The levers before a new shaft are plunger spring tension, point weight, brace height and draw weight, and a higher brace height makes the arrow shoot weaker. The nocking point also starts higher, about 1/2 in above square for fingers against about 1/4 in for a release.

      What does the tuning session log do?

      You log the starting tear, then one change per round and the tear it left. The log fills in the rest-move answer for you, flags a tear that flipped sides, grew, or hasn't shrunk after three moves on the right plane, and, once two rounds used the same adjustment and the tear is shrinking, estimates how many more steps should close it. That estimate is a straight line through your own numbers, not a formula, because no published source gives a fixed ratio between rest travel and tear size.

      What comes after a clean paper tear?

      Step back 6 ft and shoot paper again, then run a bare-shaft planing test at 15 to 20 yards: three fletched arrows, then two bare shafts at the same aim. Bare shafts high or low mean the nocking point moves toward them. After that, shoot broadheads against field points at your hunting distance; a vertical split goes to the nocking point and a horizontal one to the rest or plunger.

      Why does my paper tear change when I step back from the paper?

      Partly because the arrow is still flexing when it reaches the paper. Run typical compound hunting builds through the planner below and they flex roughly 70 to 85 times a second, so at 255 to 300 fps one flex cycle covers only about 3.5 to 4 feet of flight. Two papers half a cycle apart catch the flex going opposite ways, so the tear can shrink, grow or even flip without anything on the bow changing. The whole-arrow nose-left, nose-right swing that fletching corrects changes much more slowly, over tens of feet. The Paper Distance Planner on this page works out the flex cycle length for your own arrow and speed, and suggests a second paper between 10 and 15 feet that sits a whole number of flex cycles from the first, so the flex part of the tear looks the same at both.

      Under the hood

      How far can you trust this ranking?

      This isn’t a physics simulation — it’s a transparent, rule-based scoring system. Each answer adds points to the causes it's real diagnostic evidence for, using weights set from how strongly each signal actually rules a cause in or out (a mechanical defect from a wobbling spin test outweighs a tear direction alone, for example). Treat the ranking as a place to start testing, not a verdict — the free checks and the rest-move result are worth more than the tear direction by itself, and the tool says so in how it weights them.

      How each score is worked out Eleven inputs, an optional session log, eight candidate causes — tap any one for the exact points
      Why the free checks are worth more than the tear direction Direct evidence beats an inference, every time

      A wobbling spin test, a mark from the powder check, or a tear that changes with a relaxed grip are all direct evidence — you watched the cause happen. Tear direction, by contrast, is an inference: it narrows the field to a short list of usual suspects, but several different causes can produce the same-looking tear.

      That's why a wobbling spin test adds 55 points straight to "mechanical," a contact mark adds 65 to "contact," and an improving grip test adds 55 to "grip torque" — each large enough to dominate the ranking on its own — while tear direction alone contributes a baseline of 30 points, scaled by tear size (×0.7 small, ×1.0 medium, ×1.3 large), split between the plane-appropriate causes.

      One more direct-evidence check works the same way: if the tear looks different from arrow to arrow rather than repeating, that adds 35 points to "mechanical" on its own — a tear that won't repeat can't be a steady tuning problem like center shot or spine, since those produce the same tear every time. It's evidence of something inconsistent between arrows instead, like a bent shaft in the mix or an inconsistent release.

      Why the rest-move result carries the most weight of all It's the one input that's actually a test, not an observation

      Everything else in this tool is something you observed. The rest-move result is something you tested — you made a change and watched what happened, which is the strongest kind of diagnostic evidence available without a shop visit.

      • Closed up clean → +45 to the plane-matching cause (center shot for horizontal, nocking point height for vertical), and spine drops toward zero.
      • Shrank, won’t fully close → +20 to the plane-matching cause, +18 to spine, +12 to cam lean if the bow is a compound with a horizontal tear.
      • Didn’t change at all → +40 to spine, +30 to cam lean (compound, horizontal only), +10 to mechanical — this is the strongest single signal that the rest was never the problem.
      • Got worse → a smaller +10 to the plane-matching cause, +15 to spine, and a warning flag — getting worse after a correctly-labeled move usually means the direction convention was backwards for this bow, not that the theory is wrong.
      Nock fit — the check most tuning advice skips A tight nock produces a tear that looks exactly like a nocking-point error

      A tight nock adds 25 points to nock pinch outright, plus a further 12–35 points (scaled by tear size) if the tear is vertical, since pinch shows up mostly as a nock-high or nock-low tear. A nock-high tear also adds 10 points (scaled by size) to contact, because Easton’s tuning guide lists a clearance problem alongside a high nocking point as a cause of that tear. A loose nock adds a smaller 8 points to nock pinch and 5 to mechanical, since an inconsistent fit can also contribute to an inconsistent release without being true pinch.

      Why cam lean only scores on a compound bow Recurves and longbows don't have a cam to lean

      Cam lean is a compound-bow-specific failure mode — a recurve or longbow has no cam to come out of time, so this cause is locked to zero unless the bow type is set to compound. When it is, a horizontal tear adds 15 points to cam lean at the baseline stage, and a further 12–30 points depending on the rest-move result, since cam lean is exactly the kind of cause a rest move can't fix — which the "didn't change at all" answer captures directly.

      Finger-shot bows — why a horizontal tear also points at spine Easton’s finger-release chart reads it as an arrow reaction

      On a compound, a horizontal tear adds 30 points to center shot (scaled by size) and 15 to cam lean. On a recurve, longbow or barebow, the same 30-point baseline becomes 20 to plunger tension / center shot and 20 to spine, because a finger release makes the shaft flex around the riser and Easton’s chart reads a horizontal tear as stiff or weak. Cam lean is removed from the list entirely. The stiff/weak label (right tear = stiff for a right-handed archer, mirrored for a left-handed one) is shown as its own panel with Easton’s levers, easiest first.

      The spine calculator verdict A separate, setup-based check feeds the spine score

      If you ran the arrow through one of our spine calculators, its verdict adjusts the spine score: outside the window +30, borderline +12, inside the window −20 (floored at zero). A spine that checks out doesn’t rule spine out completely, since charts disagree at the edges, but it pushes the ranking toward the causes you can adjust.

      How the session log is read It fills the rest-move answer from your own rounds

      Only changes on the starting tear’s plane count as moves (left/right adjustments for a horizontal tear, up/down for a vertical one). The last logged tear sets the tear buttons. The rest-move answer becomes closed if the last tear is clean or the last move flipped it to the other side, shrank if it’s smaller than the starting tear, didn’t change if it’s the same size, and got worse if it’s bigger. Three or more same-plane moves without shrinkage raise a stop flag.

      The projection only appears after two or more rounds of the same adjustment with a shrinking tear: closure per step = (starting size − latest size) ÷ steps logged, and remaining steps = latest size ÷ that rate, rounded up. It’s a straight line through your own numbers, not a model of the bow.

      How the bands are drawn — Primary Suspect, Worth Checking, Unlikely Round numbers, chosen to be honest about how blunt this instrument is

      Every cause's score is clamped to 0–100. A score of 45 or higher is shown as a Primary Suspect. 20–44 is Worth Checking. Below 20 is treated as unlikely and shown faded in the ranking. These are round, deliberately conservative cutoffs, not a statistically fitted model — this tool takes no position stronger than "test this first," because a shop visit or your own paper tests are the only way to actually confirm a cause.

      This is a rule-based diagnostic aid, not a substitute for a bow-press or draw-board inspection. If a cause ranked "unlikely" turns out to be the real one, trust your own testing over this page — and consider leaving a comment so the weights can be improved.

      Paper Distance Planner

      Why does the tear change when I step back?

      An arrow leaves the bow still flexing, and it keeps flexing all the way through the paper. Enter your arrow and speed, and this works out how often that flex repeats in feet, so you can tell whether two paper distances should agree or not.

      Example builds

      Your arrow

      Chronograph speed is best. Without one, the Arrow Speed & Performance Calculator estimates it from your bow. Spine here is the carbon/aluminum deflection number (.400 etc.), not a wood arrow’s pound rating.

      Your two paper distances

      Distances are measured from the bow to the paper. Easton’s guide starts 4–6 ft away and then steps back 6 ft.

      Flex frequency—first bending mode, in flight
      One flex cycle every—
      Cycles between A and B—

      What that means for your two papers

      Best second paper for this arrow

      Flex part of the tear, relative to paper A

      +1 = the flex pushes the tear the same way it did at A, −1 = the opposite way. The whole-arrow yaw that the diagnostic above reads changes far more slowly (see below).

      Slow-motion flight past both papers

      Flex is drawn many times larger than life and slowed down about 150×. Nobody knows the phase your arrow leaves the bow in, and changing it changes both tears at once — the relationship between A and B is what holds.

      Under the hood

      What the planner can and can’t tell you

      It computes one thing well: how many feet of flight one flex cycle takes for your arrow at your speed. It does not know how hard your arrow is flexing when it leaves the bow, in which phase, or how quickly the flex dies out in the air, so it never predicts the size or direction of a tear.

      How the flex frequency is calculated A free-free beam with the point and nock as end masses
      The modelSame model family as Kooi & Sparenberg’s archer’s-paradox work

      In flight nothing holds either end of the arrow, so it bends like a free-free beam. The shaft’s bending stiffness comes straight from its spine number: spine is the deflection in inches under an 880 g (1.94 lb) weight across a 28 in span, so EI = F × L³ ÷ (48 × spine). Mass per length comes from GPI. The point and insert sit as a mass on the front end, the nock and fletching as a mass on the rear, and the first bending frequency is solved exactly. This is the beam model Kooi and Sparenberg used to model the archer’s paradox.

      One flex cycle covers speed ÷ frequency feet. Two papers a whole number of cycles apart see the same flex; half a cycle apart, the opposite.

      How close is it to a real arrow?Checked against lab measurements of bare shafts

      A University of Adelaide group measured the bending frequencies of bare Easton shafts hanging free. Using only the spine and GPI from Easton’s X10 ProTour specs and their lengths, this engine gives 91.5 Hz for the 570 (measured 91 Hz) and 84.4 Hz for the 380 (measured 83–84 Hz). With end masses added it matches a 200-element finite-element solution of the same beam to within 0.1 Hz.

      The shape of the flex checks out too. In James Park’s write-up on how arrows behave in flight, a target arrow’s first bending mode runs at 80–90 times a second, with the two points that stay still sitting about 50 mm from the point and about 150 mm from the nock. For X10-type target builds this engine gives 77–82 Hz, with those two still points 52–64 mm from the point and 144–153 mm from the nock. A typical hunting arrow, heavier and shot faster, comes out around 74 Hz.

      Why whole-arrow yaw isn’t on the chartIt moves on a much longer wavelength

      Besides bending, the whole arrow swings nose-left, nose-right while the fletching straightens it out. In sensor-equipped free-flight tests on target arrows that swing ran at 4 Hz with short vanes and 5.3 Hz with large ones, at about 185 fps. That’s one swing every 35–46 ft, so across a few feet of paper distance it barely changes, while the bending flex above can flip completely. Those were target arrows; the same measurement for hunting arrows and broadheads hasn’t been published that I could find.

      That slow swing also explains a distance most tuners already argue about. A 2026 test that fitted slow-motion video of deliberately torqued arrows found the whole-arrow yaw peaked 10.0–14.5 ft from the bow (median about 12 ft) across 11 builds on one bow. It reported where the peak was, not how big it was, so it can’t size a tear either. What it does tell you: the slow yaw is biggest around 10–15 ft, while the fast flex this planner tracks repeats every few feet on top of it.

      What is left outThe honest limits

      Only the first bending mode is modeled; the second runs roughly three times faster and is not included. The shaft is treated as uniform, so a tapered or barreled shaft will be a little off. No damping is applied, and none is known for hunting arrows in flight, so a flex that is fading will matter less at the far paper than the chart implies. The launch amplitude and phase are unknown, which is why the chart is relative to paper A and the animation lets you change the phase. Spine and GPI fix how stiff and heavy the shaft is, which is all the frequency needs, but how fast the flex dies out, and how the shaft reacts at launch, also depend on the carbon, the resin and how the tube is made (rolled, pultruded or woven). Those don’t show up in a spine number, and the planner doesn’t pretend to know them.

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